I agree with everything you've brought up Demi.
COR switching (and BRD if we get there)
I agree this needs to be addressed. People who are in these roles as COR, BRD and leaders of parties need to have macro space for this. No exceptions. None of these jobs are doing enough actions that need a full macro set where they don't have space. Making a macro set specifically for Delve on that job is what I typically do. If anyone is having issues with guessing what they should macro, feel free to send me a /tell.
Stun order
I agree with this as well. The other problem is we keep taking a BLM in the second spot. We need 2 SCH's, no exceptions. People in the LS need to start working on SCH so there are options. This should not be relied on outside the LS. It is such a vital role to winning and requires practice. It doesn't matter if you like the job or not. You're being asked to do it for your benefit and the benefit of the LS. I like SCH but I hate being a stunner. However, if I'm in the event. I do it and gear it because it's asked of me.
Making your chat stand out for both switching parties and stun order
This part isn't as necessary to add spaces. The best way and everyone should have this is changing your chat filters to hold. Config > Chat Filters > switch tell to hold. This will make it so whenever you get a tell no matter how fast the chat bar is filling up, any recent tells are held at the top of your chat window for a few seconds. Also filter chat you really don't need to see like attacks by party and allies.
Warcry
This is actually a really good idea that hasn't come to my mind. Putting it in party chat to say it's being used could help with that.
Job Education
Amen to this. We've asked people several times at the beginning of events if they are unclear on what their job roles are. If you are unfamiliar with what you're supposed to do, send me a /tell or just ask OUTSIDE. Problem is I get a ton of /tell inside asking what to do. I have no problem with telling you but I also have to focus. Communication is vital so if it's a unique situation and you want to know, send a party chat question. Someone who is a DD can be more likely to help without detriment. Again, not deterring questions. I welcome it, but choose wisely when to ask them.
Also part of this problem is not only education. We need proper gear on support jobs. Things like Orison Pantaloons +2 are invaluable. The -healing cast time and MP reduction are vital to WHM. Also I've seen a lot of the mages who don't have refresh and idle gear. Any decent mage has access to at least 3-4 mp refresh from gear and should be in idle after every spell. Any moment you aren't casting should be recovering MP and primarily by resting due to animation delay for getting up to react.
Gathering Time
I believe this is an issue too but also part of is that most of our members do not get on until later due to RL. I know we have east coasters who'd rather start around 5pm-6pm, I'm one myself. However we have to understand that not everyone is in the same region. Pushing it later to 8pm EST will likely be best for the shell. Regardless of what time we post, I always see the most log-on around 7-8 EST for our shell.
- Forum
- Delve NM runs
- Efficiency Suggestions
We also need a competent puller who does not pull more then they can handle, i.e. if they get a lot of adds they need to bring those to the alliance before going after the NM's. In regards to pulling Matamata they need to get to camp asap and hold him with with flash and provoke. The only thing different I saw with that last run was our pld was /dnc and had used dances on him. They also need to help with the counting (while they pull so I know where he's at) as there is only one of me and I can't be everywhere when it comes to debuffing (silencing eft, blinding the peiste) or cycling Mata.
On Warcry: Warrior mains should be cycling Blood Rage as well. Blood Rage will over write (and be overwritten by) Warcry. So when it comes to bosses all main Wars and /Wars should have a preplanned cycle for these to abilities or at least make sure to call out when they are using them. Both last 30 seconds.
Oh and Vent/Team Speak/etc would help immensely.
On Warcry: Warrior mains should be cycling Blood Rage as well. Blood Rage will over write (and be overwritten by) Warcry. So when it comes to bosses all main Wars and /Wars should have a preplanned cycle for these to abilities or at least make sure to call out when they are using them. Both last 30 seconds.
Oh and Vent/Team Speak/etc would help immensely.
They also need to help with the counting (while they pull so I know where he's at) as there is only one of me and I can't be everywhere when it comes to debuffing (silencing eft, blinding the peiste) or cycling Mata.Linkka
Agreed that the puller should be keeping count as well since they are the one with it from time of agroo.
The above blinding comment wasn't a shot at you Linkka, and really shouldn't have even been put on you. If i was a betting man, I'd say that someone else in the alliance was RDM or BLM main or sub (all have access to blind). Anybody that had the spell should have had the situational awareness that you were obviously busy with mata and should have jumped all over blinding that peiste. It kind of all ties into everyone knowing the fights, being aware of your surroundings, and knowing what needs to be done.
The above blinding comment wasn't a shot at you Linkka, and really shouldn't have even been put on you.Demiskus
Oh no worries there, that was mostly for the other mage's to read.
On most NM's, BLM's need to remember they have elemental DOT's (frost, shock, etc.) that they should be stacking up to 3 at a time, as every bit of damage helps. In the case Morimar, that's everyone but the raptor and matamata.
They also need to help with the counting (while they pull so I know where he's at) as there is only one of me and I can't be everywhere when it comes to debuffing (silencing eft, blinding the peiste) or cycling Mata.Linkka
*From what i've seen in delve runs, the PLD and a SCH setup matamata not the RDM, it's the RDM's job to enfeeble and debuff the mobs and keep them locked out of doing certain job traits, a sch/blm can nuke matamata with better efficiency than the RDM.
Agreed that the puller should be keeping count as well since they are the one with it from time of agroo.
The above blinding comment wasn't a shot at you Linkka, and really shouldn't have even been put on you. If i was a betting man, I'd say that someone else in the alliance was RDM or BLM main or sub (all have access to blind). Anybody that had the spell should have had the situational awareness that you were obviously busy with mata and should have jumped all over blinding that peiste. It kind of all ties into everyone knowing the fights, being aware of your surroundings, and knowing what needs to be done.Demiskus
*I think a BLM isn't needed in Delve especially if you want to win the run, as some people have said earlier in this thread it's essential to have two SCH stunners back to back /party text saying who is #1 and #2. When we did that run the other day the blm did not have a macro saying when he went. He just went when he could. Mind you I missed a few stuns myself but my gems or recast timer was on the go 50% of the time when I saw one of the more big bad moves the bosses do. If we can't accomplish this stun order on the smaller bosses we won't be close to beating Tojil until theres more practise in regarding this, it will easily and quickly go south if we can't stun properly and stun the right moves.
*Raptor - doesn't have to be stunned necessarily but it helps the melee not a dire thing to be stunning this mob.
*- Eft has to be stunned on his GA's or his poison moves, if your really lucky you can stop the paraga and geist debuff but more than likely you won't
*Kurma - He can gain a heavy resist very quickly to stunners so only stunning the essential moves.
Aqua Breath: Conal water damage - *do not need to stun really
Earth Breath: Conal earth damage - *do not need to stun really
Harden Shell: Gains a Defense Bonus effect (+100%) *debuff 100% of the time yes please
Head Butt: Single target physical damage and Accuracy Down **do not need to stun really
Tortoise Stomp: Single target physical damage and Defense Down -25% (very long duration) **do not need to stun really
Tortoise Song: Dispels all bard song and Phantom Roll effects, resets any accumulated damage multipliers.
Testudo Tremor: *This has to be stunned and should be the one thing a stunner should look for to keep the ally alive, however this only happens once kurma's HP is below 50%.
Tutewehiwehi - Does need to be blinded to lock some of his abilities, and the main things to stun is his Calcifying Mist and Thundaga's. He can hit like a truck but the melee's need to build PDT and MDT sets for all these mobs.
Being able to stun these two things makes the fight alot quicker and easier.
Matamata - SCH and PLD on the mob prepping it, no one else doesn't need to be stunned.
If you do not have the pld at full strength a monk can take over with a GOOD PDT set with enimty, yes otronif is a nice set with -PDT but you need to generate hate, and need to have arhat's and +enimty gear to be able to hold it effciently.
This brings me over to the jobs we have going in Delve for tojil. I believe BLM's do not have a place like alot of other jobs, we need more efficiency and be able to hit tojil with 10-15 minutes to spare.
The jobs that I have seen in an ally that have cleared it are as follows:
*MNK
MNK
DRG
COR
BRD
WHM
MNK
MNK
RDM
COR
WHM
BRD
PLD
WHM
SCH
SCH
BRD
GEO
Yes this is a very stale and boring setup but in reality it works. All the monks don't need to be outfitted with the best DD H2H but should have at least a rigors rank 15 weapon or a set of ninzas +1 with a decent augment.
I do believe in the skrimish gear for monk but you only use a few set pieces for Shijin Spiral, until you get the manibozho its fine and liveable. If you don't have a high amount of acc on monk BRING SUSHI. Nothing is worse than seeing a parse of acc from melee below 70% if your below this start bringing sushi, otherwise your killing DPS on killing the mob quickly.
*MNK's to help with better efficiency you should have two essential items from the Relic AF+2 set the body for extended formless strikes, and the legs for extended Hundred Fists. It does make a big difference in being able to get Tojil down to 74% with a few more mins less than giving tojil time to build an immunity to stun.
The price for the item augments are a little high but if you farm dynamis for a week you can get almost all the forgotten items to upgrade to +2. Then xping the gear in dyna we could do this in a single dynamis run in each zone it requires. I've done it in two runs dual boxing.
*WHM - Please go and take the time to build your idle refresh gear sets you can get at least +3 refresh from a few simple items and ask the LS to help farm them with you. Running out of MP is a big thing I noticed and the melee dying frequently
AF3 +2 - You need at least 4 of these pieces upgraded especially the Body and Legs they bring your efficiency up 100% in terms of keeping your party in the alliance alive.
I know theres a big debate on healing bodies and alot of you have gendewitha. However the AF3+2 body gives a stoneskin of 400hp ish or higher, which in reality is more efficient than curing in a +15% cure potency (If you are CAPPED) if you aren't capped strive to get this item!
The FFXIAH guide on all the jobs are pretty detailed and should be followed to build your WHM to be the best WHM you can be, yes you won't have all there items that they post but we can get enough of them as a LS for you to be more efficient in your healing.
Subjob - If you dont have a /sch sub get working on it, for delve its way more efficient with na spells, light arts if you haven't capped healing or enhancing or whatever. Sublimination you can charge this up outside of delve and you can constantly use it with your WHM efficiently. /RDM is nice with refresh and phalanx but it doesn't do much more for you than that.
Regen IV with na is very handy with having the AF3+2 gloves and the Relic AF2 +2 body yes were not a sch with Regen V but Regen IV with the +2 body and hands will save you alot of hp in healing people individually and doing curaga's constantly.
Get your gear together even if you don't have VW gear, build your fast cast, -curetime casting, cure potency+ gear, and augmented gear for this job, you are the ones who keep the alliance alive a WHM without this gear will always be struggling to keep up with MP.
This brings me to the other thing about WHM's hasting the parties, this job should be reserved for the support jobs BRD and COR exclusively they have MP to cast this and should be assigned prior to starting the run. This also applies to erasing and paralyna orders. The ally leader should assign a erase/na order for each melee, and each melee should be talking to there specified na/erase/haster for these buffs/debuffs.
It makes the life of the WHM easier and to concentrate on one melee to na/paralyna/haste, instead of burning mp on 3-4 melee in the party.
* Very important detail is stay in the range of your melee's and melee's stay in range to one side of the mob for your WHM's !!! Nothing is more irrtating when you get blamed for a death when it could of been avoided! I see this every run where the melee don't listen to there WHM's and fight on the opposite side of the mob and dont get cured, na/erase because they simply dont listen. Expect to die in delve more if you keep going to the opposite side of the other melee's out of range. Follow allbrex the or the ally leader to one side of the mob only. The timing can be critical of which you receive heal that could potentially save you from dying :)
*BRD- This job alongside COR are the two jobs you need to be fast and efficient into getting in and out of parties and buffing the melee and refreshing the mages. Yes this does include COR's refreshing the mages, with the proper gear COR's can effectively roll for everyone.
BRD's roll on mobs:
Matamata - has no debuffs to an entire ally dbl min and double march, pt swapping for max killing power and rolls.
Eft - double buff before fighting then dbl march/march no pt swapping for this mob, your job is solely to haste/na/poisona your assigned melee, occasionally if you have mp curaga II bomb to help the WHM along. Geist wall will be spammed alot so keep the marches up exclusively.
Raptor - if this is the first mob pulled at the beginning to the ally BRD's can use Nightingale/Troubadour and buff the entire ally on pt swaps for maximum buff duration for the alliance. Four songs should always be up for the maximum killing speed on this mob.
barfira the party after buffs are applied the whm should never be going in to do this in case they get hit by a rogue tp move and end up dying.
Kurma - Buffs will be dispelled alot so do one round of pt swapping buffs then do double march/march for the duration of the fight. Please keep the ballads up on the whms as this fight can drain mp with kurma's Testudo Tremor.
Keep dispelling the harden shell etc when Kurma casts it. inbetween your march spam etc.
Tutewehiwehi - worst mob of all the bosses, double buff up and keep rotating when buffs wear do not use N/T save it for tojil. na/erase/haste/stona your assigned melee.
COR - Mainly keep rolls up on melee and mages, get your AF3+2 and your AF2+2 augmented gear! It helps in the efficiency 100% when you have your AF2+2 augmented hat and body I think? for your rolls and prevents you from busting. You should also do your AF luzaf's ring it extends the duration of rolls making you pt hop less.
COR is a rather simple job and you should run to the back when the brd does to ballad the PTs to keep your MP up. As when you get assigned a melee they will expect to be hasted.
SCH - Critical job in beating Tojil get your stun sets! and get your Apajamas II staff. Yes you can get your stun down to 4-5 secs without it. But when your gems are down haste is a must on the SCH's I did not receive a single haste on myself or the BLM when we were in delve killing our timers to a crawl when gems were down. This cannot happen if we wanna do tojil. We cannot haste ourselves so we rely on the GEO's or BRDs for the haste.
You won't be healing much so the SCH's wont need to be refreshed much but it does help us if the WHM drops to the ground. We help prep matamata and not the RDM.
GEO - self explanatory haste/na/paralyna your assigned melee and keep your loupans and indi up I dont know which ones as I havent played geo in a run yet.
RDM - Debuffs certain mobs and keeps them ON, is the MAIN puller of all bosses, haste/na/parlyna shouldnt be assigned to the rdm as she/he will pull the bosses off of the pld in the run,
The RDM should have maxed skills and +enfeeble gear with augmented AF2+2 relic and fully upgrade AF3+2 gear. Pretty self explanatory your job is to dispel, debuff and land enfeebles on the bosses.
I could talk abit more but alot of it is covered here in previous posts, and the last thing Id' like to talk about is Job versatility. Everyone should level a specific job for delve, but they should level some other jobs and start gearing them up, you will get better at your job if you learn how exactly what each job stressed to be there best on, if you constantly come as a MNK or WHM or GEO or whatever you should start on a 2nd job and gearing it. The only way you will get better as a player is knowing how each job plays theirs in delve.
It also gives the same people a break in having to do the same job over and over in delve. There shouldn't be an excuse of "I don't want to carry all that gear or I don't have the time to level another job". That is unexcuseable and easily doable in abbyssea.
I levelled and geared at least 8 jobs that are used in delve, mind you I havent done GEO yet but the point is, I have that job levelled and gear and ready to be on if it calls for it. People in the LS should too.
On my last note this isn't meant to be mean or harsh if we want to be efficient in Delve we need people to level other jobs, be geared properly and be willing to listen to your leaders and take constructive criticism to do these clears. If theres an open shout run on the server go to it and try too! it'll show you what other lses expect of you joining there run and what you should be able to accomplish on the job you go on.
604 weeks ago
I think u guys are focusing waaaay to much on the technical stuff (which is great and needed btw) and not paying enough attention to basics… like certain types of mobs take reduced dmg from certain sides or do certain moves when attacked from certain sides, etc…
quite honestly the mage bashing is certainly necessary and justified, but if we can't even get the melees to stand where they are supposed to stand its like asking someone to ace the intermediate class when they can't even pass the basics.
tl;dr = to start fixing things we should start from the basics, before we fixed the advanced issues.
quite honestly the mage bashing is certainly necessary and justified, but if we can't even get the melees to stand where they are supposed to stand its like asking someone to ace the intermediate class when they can't even pass the basics.
tl;dr = to start fixing things we should start from the basics, before we fixed the advanced issues.
You can't have a revolution without a dance ~ V
Est sularus oth mithas!
Est sularus oth mithas!
I think u guys are focusing waaaay to much on the technical stuff (which is great and needed btw) and not paying enough attention to basics… like certain types of mobs take reduced dmg from certain sides or do certain moves when attacked from certain sides, etc…
quite honestly the mage bashing is certainly necessary and justified, but if we can't even get the melees to stand where they are supposed to stand its like asking someone to ace the intermediate class when they can't even pass the basics.
tl;dr = to start fixing things we should start from the basics, before we fixed the advanced issues.Brightblade
Agreed as well, I'll admit I caught myself standing between the NM and mages the other night. Hopefully it was only the once! It's part of the awareness we all need to work on, myself included in that.
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Demiskus Admin replied
604 weeks ago