I want to make a point that I highly encourage this kind of feedback. Something that was mentioned was job knowledge and I think this is a very fair point. I take responsibility for some of that b/c I like to get everyone in the LS involved in the runs and unfortunately it's kicking us in the butt b/c we have people on jobs they're not very familiar with or aren't fully geared. Bottom line is, I've been too lenient and this can't happen anymore.
Everyone coming seems serious about winning now. With that in mind we definitely have the skill to do it I've no doubt of that, but we're not playing to our strengths. Something that would really help out everyone a ton is getting people on set jobs or at least 2-3 set jobs in case others can't make it.
Along those lines, an issue I VERY commonly run into is everyone wants to go DD. I get a lot of tells about it and it's the easiest job in the world to fill. Because of this, I'm going to have to start being very strict on DD's. DD's need to be held to a standard as well and I've run minimal enforcement on this. I run parses every run we go on to see dmg and statistics. The initial reason I started doing this a good awhile ago was for myself to see what setups worked better and I could see how my accuracy and dmg improved with what gear and what the par was that I needed to reach. Personally I highly recommend this for any DD as it really helps you tweak gear. Also b/c of the parses, I know which DD's off the top of my head are putting out high end numbers. So to be fair to everyone requesting to be on a DD job, I'll be narrowing this down to the guys who output the most dmg consistently. To compensate for this, the people who do not get chosen on DD jobs, it will help to know what other jobs you have geared well/play well and that you enjoy or can at least tolerate so everyone still is having fun. Be prepared for this change, I know not everyone will like it, but keep in mind we only have so many DD slots open.
Elaborating on the job necessities we've been facing, we're hurting for consistent cors, a 2nd brd and schs generally. If people take on cor or brd full time, that would be a huge help. I'm also hoping Wolf and Necro can try out blu on this upcoming run and replace SCH going that route, that'd be hardcore b/c they could output melee dmg, magical dmg for stuff like kurma/mata, and stuns. Definitely going to test that out. The brds seem to take on a lot of responsibility and they need help from the cors and other mages on sleeps.
I'll touch base more as things come to mind.
- Forum
- Delve NM runs
- Efficiency Suggestions
Okay so after reading this thread everyone has some solid points…
First, here is what I see, and my perspective from this delve runs stuff from the beginning. There have been many runs that were complete fail only because for some players, it was their first time doing them, first time on the job doing them, or on a job that they are NOT familiar with etc.
"A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link"
Just keep the above phrase in mind for me as you read this because I feel I must go back to basic training. One a team which is what our linkshell is, is only as strong as its weakest link so lets start there. What is the weakest link that makes our runs impossible to get thru.
1. Gamers not prepared. (IE: Reraise items, potions, remedies etc)
I have been guilty of this, but have since learned and corrected it, but players are still showing up without needed items. Yes you might have to invest, but this allows mages to conserve mp for need enfeebs, enhancements etc, not waisting it on raises.
2. NOT PAYING ATTENTION.
We all at some point are guilty of this, not doing counts, not paying attention to the needs of the person your assigned too etc. It has happened to all of us at some point and no one is perfect. We all need the frame of mind this is a timed event, dedication will be required for the 1-3 hours we plan on doing it.
3. Unfamiliar with their job
People are coming on jobs they don't normally use as their main job, or play on a regular basis and are coming on the run because that is the job they are assigned. Again, goes back to the weakest link, we can not expect players to be perfect on a job they don't normally play or are unfamiliar with and what that particular jobs requirements are in the event.
4. Unfamiliar with the mobs abilities etc.
I for one do not live in the world of FFXI, nor do I know the beastairy by heart. Some people have already gained that knowledge by research and by trial and error. We need to have everyone on every job familiar with every mob that way they know there responsibilities. If you can not/will not teach you should not lead.
5. Unfamiliar of their given/expected duties.
Again, we are asking players to come on jobs they did not play on and do the old school party grinds for hours upon day on end. No we are asking players to come on jobs we need, not jobs they are skilled on or have played and have job experience in. Don't be quick to judge and talk crap about players because of their lack of abilities in their job when they don't play it. Again that back to basics that was mentioned.
6. Not all playing on the same type of gaming system platform. (PS2, PS3, xbox, PC)
I play on xbox, ps2 or the ps3 at times, it all depends on what is open (if you have a house full of kids you would understand) my hubby is on the computer. Let me tell you first hand, he can macro some shit I can't do even if I wanted too. Keep that in mind, the PC users have the use of the windower thingy and have additions like spellcast and all kinds of other crap I am still not understanding. But the point is his spellcast vs my 10 page macro book kicks some serious ass, do I have those opportunities? Nope not unless someone knows a serious hack for my xbox. So just remember that PC users have all the fancy plug-ins that give them a jump on the rest. Don't expect someone to be at the same level when they don't have the same ability too.
"Leadership by example, NOT command"
Second, leadership by example NOT command. Everyone has to step back as a leader, wether it is party, group, job class etc. and look at yourself, am I doing what I am asking my fellow players to do or to not do? Each person needs to be mindful of themselves, first. Second, don't berate or belittle another player because they are not performing up to your own personal set of standards. Not everyone is at the same level in this game, some play for fun, others for rank, notoriety and such. Some members are great leaders at this and offer a tremendous amount of help, or direction to the right person to help. These are true leaders because they are offering and supporting the weakest link. Some just don't get it and that is where they are weak. we need to build the linkshell up in all of it's weak points, wether it is leadership, skills, gear etc.
"Plan for the worst, but hope for the best"
Third, this event will be mastered but only if the above things happen first. And as stated before on this thread by everyone who has commented "Back to basics". The basics really need to be brought back. I for one hated to level when I started this game in 2002. I was perma 30 on all jobs because I refused to sit in grind parties for hours on end. Now after being in a few abby parties I honestly would take a grind party anyday vs being seriously handicapped on skills because of the fast paced leveling. WE need to remember that this is how most have leveled all of their jobs too 99. Not all but most. And this fast pace leveling leaves people deficient and not where they need to be for the job they are on, or asked to play.
I, for one have been learning on these runs, and read some valuable information in this post. I am not perfect, I don't play all of the time but I am willing to come on a job that is not my favorite (least favorite actually) and learn what is expected of me and do what is expected of me. When I am not getting it don't berate me or belittle me, instruct me like a leader should. What's the saying "Check your own mistakes before you check mine?"… Ask if we as players are getting it/understanding our job roll, some people are afraid to ask for help on a job they don't play because then they feel they are judged and treated as if they are incompetent, (not all live in the world of FFXI). And above all else, when someone asks for help, don't treat them like they are less then a person or the job they are and don't talk down to someone who is willing to learn.
First, here is what I see, and my perspective from this delve runs stuff from the beginning. There have been many runs that were complete fail only because for some players, it was their first time doing them, first time on the job doing them, or on a job that they are NOT familiar with etc.
"A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link"
Just keep the above phrase in mind for me as you read this because I feel I must go back to basic training. One a team which is what our linkshell is, is only as strong as its weakest link so lets start there. What is the weakest link that makes our runs impossible to get thru.
1. Gamers not prepared. (IE: Reraise items, potions, remedies etc)
I have been guilty of this, but have since learned and corrected it, but players are still showing up without needed items. Yes you might have to invest, but this allows mages to conserve mp for need enfeebs, enhancements etc, not waisting it on raises.
2. NOT PAYING ATTENTION.
We all at some point are guilty of this, not doing counts, not paying attention to the needs of the person your assigned too etc. It has happened to all of us at some point and no one is perfect. We all need the frame of mind this is a timed event, dedication will be required for the 1-3 hours we plan on doing it.
3. Unfamiliar with their job
People are coming on jobs they don't normally use as their main job, or play on a regular basis and are coming on the run because that is the job they are assigned. Again, goes back to the weakest link, we can not expect players to be perfect on a job they don't normally play or are unfamiliar with and what that particular jobs requirements are in the event.
4. Unfamiliar with the mobs abilities etc.
I for one do not live in the world of FFXI, nor do I know the beastairy by heart. Some people have already gained that knowledge by research and by trial and error. We need to have everyone on every job familiar with every mob that way they know there responsibilities. If you can not/will not teach you should not lead.
5. Unfamiliar of their given/expected duties.
Again, we are asking players to come on jobs they did not play on and do the old school party grinds for hours upon day on end. No we are asking players to come on jobs we need, not jobs they are skilled on or have played and have job experience in. Don't be quick to judge and talk crap about players because of their lack of abilities in their job when they don't play it. Again that back to basics that was mentioned.
6. Not all playing on the same type of gaming system platform. (PS2, PS3, xbox, PC)
I play on xbox, ps2 or the ps3 at times, it all depends on what is open (if you have a house full of kids you would understand) my hubby is on the computer. Let me tell you first hand, he can macro some shit I can't do even if I wanted too. Keep that in mind, the PC users have the use of the windower thingy and have additions like spellcast and all kinds of other crap I am still not understanding. But the point is his spellcast vs my 10 page macro book kicks some serious ass, do I have those opportunities? Nope not unless someone knows a serious hack for my xbox. So just remember that PC users have all the fancy plug-ins that give them a jump on the rest. Don't expect someone to be at the same level when they don't have the same ability too.
"Leadership by example, NOT command"
Second, leadership by example NOT command. Everyone has to step back as a leader, wether it is party, group, job class etc. and look at yourself, am I doing what I am asking my fellow players to do or to not do? Each person needs to be mindful of themselves, first. Second, don't berate or belittle another player because they are not performing up to your own personal set of standards. Not everyone is at the same level in this game, some play for fun, others for rank, notoriety and such. Some members are great leaders at this and offer a tremendous amount of help, or direction to the right person to help. These are true leaders because they are offering and supporting the weakest link. Some just don't get it and that is where they are weak. we need to build the linkshell up in all of it's weak points, wether it is leadership, skills, gear etc.
"Plan for the worst, but hope for the best"
Third, this event will be mastered but only if the above things happen first. And as stated before on this thread by everyone who has commented "Back to basics". The basics really need to be brought back. I for one hated to level when I started this game in 2002. I was perma 30 on all jobs because I refused to sit in grind parties for hours on end. Now after being in a few abby parties I honestly would take a grind party anyday vs being seriously handicapped on skills because of the fast paced leveling. WE need to remember that this is how most have leveled all of their jobs too 99. Not all but most. And this fast pace leveling leaves people deficient and not where they need to be for the job they are on, or asked to play.
I, for one have been learning on these runs, and read some valuable information in this post. I am not perfect, I don't play all of the time but I am willing to come on a job that is not my favorite (least favorite actually) and learn what is expected of me and do what is expected of me. When I am not getting it don't berate me or belittle me, instruct me like a leader should. What's the saying "Check your own mistakes before you check mine?"… Ask if we as players are getting it/understanding our job roll, some people are afraid to ask for help on a job they don't play because then they feel they are judged and treated as if they are incompetent, (not all live in the world of FFXI). And above all else, when someone asks for help, don't treat them like they are less then a person or the job they are and don't talk down to someone who is willing to learn.
I've been reading through what has been said so far including some inaccuracies.
Inaccurate info.
Volatile Matamata Count
Do not count Matamata TP moves until you start dealing magic damage. Matamata when using a TP move calculates how much of physical and magical damage was dealt in order to determine weakness added. In the case of pulling, there is none being dealt and shouldn't be.The PLD pulling should not be assisting with the count at any time. Anyone who has experience with PLD tanking knows you need to be constantly occupied with maintaining enmity, healing yourself if any spell interruptions. Nuking is not that difficult to watch for a TP move and count.
Stunning
Unless someone is running Battlemod (which forces TP moves to show up in chats faster), it's impossible to stun effectively looking at the TP move. If you are running correctly with 2 stunners, it is also unnecessary. This is a tactic used by LS's to spare spots for selling wins. We are not even there yet. 2 stunners with a 5-6 second recast is perfect on it's own.
Kurma and Tojil are the only concerns for stun resistance. GEO is there to alleviate that. During Kurma: PLD, RDM and/or BLU assists with this. Ideally RDM is melee range with a sword and sushi. Using Enwater II and Death Blossom. Dispelling Harden Shell, keeping Dia 3 up. Enwater II doesn't do much damage but it lowers lightning magic evasion. Any magic damage at all, regardless of amount lowers Kurma's magic evasion by 0.1 making enspells the fastest most efficient way to keep his m.evasion down to normal levels. Allowing debuffs to stick easier and stuns to land reliably.
Alliance setup and the importance of leveling jobs
The alliance going in mandatorly needs to be the following:
DDx3, WHM/SCH, BRD/WHM, COR/WHM
DRG, DDx2, WHM/SCH, BRD/WHM, COR/WHM
PLD RDM/BLM SCH/BLM SCH/BLM GEO/RDM WHM/SCH
(I say DD in the respect that MNK is the primarly goal however, boss weapons negate this to an extent, especially for SAM)
I'm sorry but all this we can't find this job, no one wants to come that, don't have that sub, don't want to level that needs to end. If you don't have it leveled you can't come. It's the cruel nature of the game we play, not elitist.
The PLD party absolutely needs to be LS folk, no matter who it is. Followed by party leader DD's for rotations. These are the most vital job roles and require the most practice. If we cannot occupy these 100% with LS folk, it needs to be just a NM plasm run.
Yes, there are tons of setups people have won other than the above but the difference is:
1. They already won, with boss geared players you can be more flexible.
2. They are mostly using entirely their own LS. The synergy also allows flexibility.
We don't have either luxury yet, so surefire setups is better than picking random jobs.
The understated importance of Red Mage
RDM needs to be moved off Matamata. That cannot be disputed. SCH does not have that much to do early on that requires them in T1-T3 full time. A single good stunner is enough. RDM primary role is keeping Dia 3 active on all except mata, silence, paralyze, free stun, back up cures, dispel, refreshing everyone but SCH's, etc. That job is the stabilizer to the chaos. There is a lot to keep up and that's always been RDM's role as the great juggler. There is a reason RDM can sit at up to 14 mp/tick on it's own for 9+ mins + Convert. Magic spam. The also aforementioned removing magic resistance on Kurma.
NM kill order
Very understated. The Tier 1-3 NMs are random, we never know ahead of time how they will be situated and need to be handled. Regardless this is the order, the rest needs no order or explanation. Other than if Peiste and Kurma are in the same room then Kurma is held by PLD due to Peiste being infintely more dangerous.
1. Eft
2. Raptor/Matamata
3. Matamata/Raptor (depending on count)
Raptor can be slept easily and if no one is attacking it, won't TP move. It is insanely easier to keep down.
Adds, adds, adds!
Get rid of them first and foremost regardless of pull. This isn't time to blame the pullers. Several adds take 30-45 seconds. Waiting to pull or caution wastes more time than it takes to kill them. Same with wasting time by leaving them.
Inaccurate info.
Volatile Matamata Count
Do not count Matamata TP moves until you start dealing magic damage. Matamata when using a TP move calculates how much of physical and magical damage was dealt in order to determine weakness added. In the case of pulling, there is none being dealt and shouldn't be.The PLD pulling should not be assisting with the count at any time. Anyone who has experience with PLD tanking knows you need to be constantly occupied with maintaining enmity, healing yourself if any spell interruptions. Nuking is not that difficult to watch for a TP move and count.
Stunning
Unless someone is running Battlemod (which forces TP moves to show up in chats faster), it's impossible to stun effectively looking at the TP move. If you are running correctly with 2 stunners, it is also unnecessary. This is a tactic used by LS's to spare spots for selling wins. We are not even there yet. 2 stunners with a 5-6 second recast is perfect on it's own.
Kurma and Tojil are the only concerns for stun resistance. GEO is there to alleviate that. During Kurma: PLD, RDM and/or BLU assists with this. Ideally RDM is melee range with a sword and sushi. Using Enwater II and Death Blossom. Dispelling Harden Shell, keeping Dia 3 up. Enwater II doesn't do much damage but it lowers lightning magic evasion. Any magic damage at all, regardless of amount lowers Kurma's magic evasion by 0.1 making enspells the fastest most efficient way to keep his m.evasion down to normal levels. Allowing debuffs to stick easier and stuns to land reliably.
Alliance setup and the importance of leveling jobs
The alliance going in mandatorly needs to be the following:
DDx3, WHM/SCH, BRD/WHM, COR/WHM
DRG, DDx2, WHM/SCH, BRD/WHM, COR/WHM
PLD RDM/BLM SCH/BLM SCH/BLM GEO/RDM WHM/SCH
(I say DD in the respect that MNK is the primarly goal however, boss weapons negate this to an extent, especially for SAM)
I'm sorry but all this we can't find this job, no one wants to come that, don't have that sub, don't want to level that needs to end. If you don't have it leveled you can't come. It's the cruel nature of the game we play, not elitist.
The PLD party absolutely needs to be LS folk, no matter who it is. Followed by party leader DD's for rotations. These are the most vital job roles and require the most practice. If we cannot occupy these 100% with LS folk, it needs to be just a NM plasm run.
Yes, there are tons of setups people have won other than the above but the difference is:
1. They already won, with boss geared players you can be more flexible.
2. They are mostly using entirely their own LS. The synergy also allows flexibility.
We don't have either luxury yet, so surefire setups is better than picking random jobs.
The understated importance of Red Mage
RDM needs to be moved off Matamata. That cannot be disputed. SCH does not have that much to do early on that requires them in T1-T3 full time. A single good stunner is enough. RDM primary role is keeping Dia 3 active on all except mata, silence, paralyze, free stun, back up cures, dispel, refreshing everyone but SCH's, etc. That job is the stabilizer to the chaos. There is a lot to keep up and that's always been RDM's role as the great juggler. There is a reason RDM can sit at up to 14 mp/tick on it's own for 9+ mins + Convert. Magic spam. The also aforementioned removing magic resistance on Kurma.
NM kill order
Very understated. The Tier 1-3 NMs are random, we never know ahead of time how they will be situated and need to be handled. Regardless this is the order, the rest needs no order or explanation. Other than if Peiste and Kurma are in the same room then Kurma is held by PLD due to Peiste being infintely more dangerous.
1. Eft
2. Raptor/Matamata
3. Matamata/Raptor (depending on count)
Raptor can be slept easily and if no one is attacking it, won't TP move. It is insanely easier to keep down.
Adds, adds, adds!
Get rid of them first and foremost regardless of pull. This isn't time to blame the pullers. Several adds take 30-45 seconds. Waiting to pull or caution wastes more time than it takes to kill them. Same with wasting time by leaving them.
That post is spot on Wolf and all of it is issues we will need to address to be successful. Reminds me that b/c we'll be getting more strict on jobs that are able to come, I'll be writing a list of people currently going to runs and what job they primarily go as. This should help everyone get an idea of what to expect, have everyone on one of their best jobs and hopefully speed up setup times as well.
I'd like to comment too that both Demi and Lokist's post were very thorough as well and brought to my attention points that I have added a couple posts and changes about.
I'd like to comment too that both Demi and Lokist's post were very thorough as well and brought to my attention points that I have added a couple posts and changes about.
last edited 603 weeks ago by Allbrex
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